Episode Transcript
Max Forsyth (00:08)
Hello and welcome to Strategy, Story and Stakeholders. It's the podcast for senior leaders in comms, corporate affairs and also investor relations. We're exploring how best to support CEOs and boards to build credibility and how to engage with stakeholders. So that's everyone from employees and customers to investors and governments. At a time when trust in leaders is low, the power of clear storytelling has never been more important. I'm Max Forsyth, Founder of Comms Search & selection. And I've got a decade of experience recruiting comms and IR leaders. Today, I'm joined by Tabita Andersson, Vice President of Marketing at Rimini Street, former SVP of Communications at Clarivate Analytics, and author of the new book, Chief Communications Officers at Work. It's a book that lifts the lid on what the best CCOs actually do, how they build trust, how they influence executive teams, and how they protect and advance reputation in an increasingly volatile environment.
In our conversation Tabita shares what she's learned from interviewing 23 senior communications leaders. The traits that separate high-impact CCOs from the rest and why communications needs to be embedded in business strategy not treated as an afterthought. It's a thoughtful and practical discussion about leadership, influence and the future of the communications profession. Here's my conversation with Tabita Andersson.
So, Tabita Andersson, welcome to Strategy, Story and Stakeholders.
Tabita Andersson (01:42)
Thank you very much. Great to be here and thank you for having me.
Max Forsyth (01:45)
Thanks.
It's an absolute pleasure. Let's get straight into it. So you're currently the VP of Marketing at Rimini Street and previously were the Senior Vice President for Communications and Brand at Clarivate. So what inspired you to write Chief Communications Officers at Work?
Tabita Andersson (02:00)
So I've been working in the communications ⁓ area for a very long time throughout my career and I've seen how difficult it is to A, prove the value of the role of what we do and also I've seen how difficult it is for comms professionals to grow their career and become more senior. Quite often I've seen a lot of people getting stuck at that kind of head of levels, senior director, director levels and it's really hard to get into the boardroom and because I've had the privilege of being on that journey myself,
I really wanted something that could serve as something to really motivate and inspire other communications professionals to go on that journey and really bring communications as a profession up to that boardroom level. So that inspired me. I'm a big reader myself. I love reading books. And I had read the Chief Marketing Officers at work book. So I was looking for something similar on communications, but I couldn't find anything.
Instead I happened to find the publisher and I happened to find their way or their template actually for submitting an idea. So I thought well why not and thankfully they thought it was a great idea and ⁓ about a year ago we signed a contract and here I am today.
Max Forsyth (03:15)
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, I I love the inspiration for that actually. And yeah, in a weird way, kind of similar to me when I set up Comms Search & Selection as an action, I was having a on Companies House and couldn't quite believe that no one else had ever nabbed it. So yeah, and a very smart love it. When you reflect on your career across marketing and comms leadership, then what shaped your perspective most that's been the inspiration behind the book?
Tabita Andersson (03:40)
There's a couple of things. One is the value of what we do. I think it's very underestimated. My husband once told me, whenever you get a new boss, they always try to take over comms or move it under into somewhere else or get it layered. Why is that? Why isn't what you do so valuable? And I've had several people saying that to me. And so that's always been a bit of a passion of mine to prove that actually what we do in terms of shaping reputation.
helping out in crisis situations, it really has a massive impact or can have a massive impact on the organization. And the skills that we have and that we bring to the table in terms of joining Darts, in terms of just having a different perspective, really proves the value of the function and the role. And that is just so inspiring to me. And I want to bring that passion to the wider world and also the wider profession.
and show ⁓ our more junior comms professionals and those on the career ladder that it is possible to grow your career and have a fantastic path in comms as well as marketing and ⁓ other functions.
Max Forsyth (04:50)
That's fantastic. And we need to bottle that and stick that on the strapline of every single PR and communications degree. think of, you know, you can have a, God, I hate the phrase, but seat at the top table. Great. Let's get into the nitty gritty of the book then. So in your book, you describe the CCO as a trusted advisor to the CEO. What sets high impact CCOs apart?
Tabita Andersson (05:15)
High impact CEOs have that trusted, you talk about the trust, we talk about trusted advisor, is having the ear of the CEO and having a CEO that really trusts you when something happens. One CEO, for example, a few years back told me, if you have that great relationship first, then when something happened, when the crisis hit, you don't have to worry about that. You can go straight into it. You can work together and collaborate on the solution.
And that is so important. So building those trusted relationships with everyone in the C-suite is just really important as the communications advisor around the table because it makes life so much easier when you have to be quick to act on something when a crisis hit or when you have to do the planning for a massive transformation program, for example. And it's so much easier for the comms professional to be in those conversations early.
and having an understanding of the decisions and being part of that decision making progress and process so that we can actually advise in the best way possible. Something that comes up during my conversations and you'll see it in the book throughout is that kind of the notion of being early in the room and early in the process. It just helps us because we can advise in the best way possible. One of the things that the Chief Comms Officer is really good at
is understanding the consequences of decisions. And that is part and parcel of what we do when we do the planning of communications. So being early in and having that conversations and talking to leaders about, do you realize that this could land in this way with a customer, but it could land in a completely different way with your colleagues and employees? And then planning for that so that we can get the best result of the change program or
the launch or whatever it might be that the leadership team is working on. ⁓
Max Forsyth (07:15)
And how do the best CCOs balance being that trusted advisor, that strategic counsel with the overarching reputational risk management of the company and the business?
Tabita Andersson (07:27)
So I think from what I hear, there are a few themes that came across through all of my conversations. Critical thinking is one of those skills that can really help balance the two, because you need to be able to look at what's in front of you and think, well, how's that going to impact the reputation of my organization? And how is that going to go as a conversation around the table? So that's a really good skill to have in order to balance the two.
And then I think another skill is courage. A lot of the CCOs that I spoke to talked about having the courage to speak up when needed. And sometimes that might mean you might not necessarily be the most popular person in the room or around the table, but bringing the perspective and perhaps a different perspective to the conversation is very important as a CCO. So courage is again, is important in order to balance the two.
And then I also think that a third skill that's really good to have to balance the two is curiosity. Being curious about your organization, being curious about how customers, how investors, how all your different stakeholders perceive the company and how a message might land. And then having the curiosity to understand how the organization operates, how the business works, also help in being able to balance those two.
Max Forsyth (08:52)
Yes, and if I was to add as well, think having the confidence to raise potential issues or to be perhaps that slightly contrarian view in the room, having the emotional intelligence to put it across in the right way and not in a way that gets everybody's backs up and suddenly you're on the defensive rather than winning hearts and minds as they say.
Tabita Andersson (09:18)
Yeah, that emotional intelligence is actually something that several of the CCOs that I interviewed mentioned as their superpower. Being able to have that calm and steady influence whilst bringing topics to the table is really, important. And to be able to balance the different opinions that sit and the different opinions that you hear and then take that to a win-win solution.
to get the best for the company. I think that's so important and you need that emotional intelligence because quite often emotions go high when you're talking about very confidential or very sensitive information or it's about finances, performance. So being that kind of calm and steady voice, it's really important for a CCO
Max Forsyth (10:11)
What do you think CEOs most misunderstand about the scope or the value of the commerce function?
Tabita Andersson (10:19)
I think sometimes the comms function can be seen as a delivery function and a service function by CEOs, as just the person who gets the email out to everyone, or the person who does the press release, or the person who updates the website, or perhaps in a good way, the person who to go to when there's a crisis. So I think that's a very normal and very usual common perception that I have experienced and I've seen.
and a lot of the CCOs that I spoke to have seen it as well. And it takes quite a while, it takes time to build that trusted relationship in order to shift that perception. I think we are doing it much better as a profession now than if I think back 10, 15 years ago, we didn't see so many CCOs at the top table, communications was much more viewed as that kind of delivery function.
I think we have grown up a lot in the last 10, 15 years. And I think some of the things that's happened in the world, the lockdown, for example, is a fantastic example of where we saw internal communications really come to the fore because all of a sudden we had to help people in a very different way than we had to do in the past. So I think as a profession, we have really matured and we've really grown up in the last 10, 15 years, which is a great thing, I think, but it does take time.
to build the relationships in order to deliver that additional value that we can so that we can move from being a service delivery to a trusted business advisor inside the business.
Max Forsyth (11:57)
Yes, I think that is also, if I compare the UK and US markets, for example, in the US there is a much more mature and more established executive communications function. Here in the UK, probably count on one hand the amount of companies I know that have a dedicated exec comms function and actually a lot of CEOs here, a lot of CEOs of the FTSE.
still tend to outsource a lot of that trusted advisor work to a Finsbury or to a Teneo and sometimes expect their most senior communications person in-house to be working in tandem with them. I think if there was one thing for me that I would love to see for the industry is a little bit more of that trust coming back in or moving in-house in the UK and actually a lot of CEOs realizing that
hey, you know, actually probably the best thing for you in the business here is to keep more of that in house. Have the external advisory where you need it for, you know, kind of particular crisis or a particularly complex piece of work. Fine, not a problem. But for the more routine day to day things, actually you need that much closer link either with your, you know, CCO or group corporate affairs director, whatever you want to call them. You know, I think job titles are quite interchangeable.
But yeah, that is what I'd certainly love to see more of in the UK and a bit more of that established execcoms function here and of course Europe, the US tend to get it.
Tabita Andersson (13:34)
Yeah, I totally agree with you there. And I personally have worked in global companies pretty much most of my career. And I've seen exactly that same trend as over in the US, you tend to have slightly larger comms teams, and you have a lot more executive comms function as well than on this side of the pond. Interestingly, I do actually I've interviewed a few European CCOs in my in my book.
which was super interesting to see how in Europe it's also actually I think more valued perhaps in the UK. So you see it much more on that side than the UK which I thought was quite interesting. And I think in Europe we have the added complexities of the legislations and regulations and also the languages and the cultures are much more fragmented.
Comms is all of a sudden seen as more of an important part of the function to bring in. But on your point in terms of agency versus in-house, I also think that's such a missed opportunity because when you work in in-house as a Com's professional, you gain such a fantastic understanding of the insights of the business. You are much closer to your customers and your external stakeholders and you can join the dots. One of the advantages as an in-house Com's professional you have is that
because you've seen all the perspectives, you can join the dots. That is really difficult as an outside external counsel to do. Because you don't have that full visibility and full transparency of what's happening inside the business. And when you're sitting at the table, you also have that transparency, which sometimes you don't have necessarily at the slightly lower levels of a comms profession. you can actually advise in a very different way.
Capacity in very different ways and I've seen that myself is that the advice I'm giving could be very different at that level versus Yes, on the different level but unless you're inside the organization and have the feel for what's going on and have your finger on the pulse of What's going on with your employees? What's going on? What's what's you know? What customers are talking about? What's the investors if you're in a public company? What's your investors? Interested in and what's kind of? ⁓ difficult for them
you are actually able inside the organization to balance the needs and priorities of those different stakeholders. From an external perspective, that's very difficult. You can absolutely step in. If there's a crisis, even as an in-house professional, sometimes you need that expert advice from the outside. So you can, as an external advisor, you can step in and be kind of on the point, help and counsel.
But I think it's such a missed opportunities for CEOs and executives to not take advantage of actually what a really good in-house comms professional brings to the table.
Max Forsyth (16:27)
Yes, and also frankly, costly. These outside advisory firms do not come cheap and lots of missed opportunities there and certainly something for the profession but also us external recruiters and headhunters to work on as well too. ⁓ Moving on to reputation, trust and stakeholder engagement, you write about how trust links to business performance. What's an example that brings this to life?
Tabita Andersson (16:54)
An example is seeing around the corners. It's just one of those things and topics that came up again and again. Because a good comms professional will sit down and look at your comms planning whenever you're trying to do something. So if you've got product launch or if you've got a big change initiative, or even if you're changing the entire business, whether that's structure, whether that's strategy, a good comms professional will sit and think around, see you around the corners, what's the consequences? What could potentially happen?
if we do this and if we do that. And that I think really links to building trust in your reputation because then you can actually, you can strategize and you can plan your communication so your messages will land in the best way possible so you can build that trust with your external stakeholders. Because if you do that, you will then pave the way for your marketing teams, for your sales teams.
their jobs become so much easier. And even paving the way for the executives when you're talking to investors or other CEO level partners, for example, you're paving the way by building that great reputation in the marketplace. So you're kind of almost up at the front and leading the way if you like. And so I think that's just super important for an organization when you're trying to build reputation. Because reputation, as we all know, could be lost so quickly.
But actually, it takes a lot more time to build it. we really need to spend that time because then if something does happen, you also have that equity with your stakeholders because they trust you already. So it's much more easier than to deal with a crisis or whatever might come.
Max Forsyth (18:44)
Yes, no very true. In an era of misinformation, what responsibility should the CCO take in defending truth?
Tabita Andersson (18:54)
I think we have a great responsibility, a great responsibility and ownership to ourselves, to our organization, and also to our audiences and the public. So if you're a CCO sitting in a company and you have access to the information that is behind the truth and the validation of the truth, and I think the validating is a really key point that ⁓ I really want to come back to as well.
But think you have a great responsibility as organizations. I mean, we see in Aidenman's trust barometer every single year now for the last few years, that businesses are more trusted, organizations are most trusted than the public, et cetera. So I think as a business, we have a great responsibility and CCOs are absolutely at the forefront of that. But I think as I mentioned, validation, because I think that is a really important path, especially now with AI and GenAI coming in.
being able to provide those validating points and the proof points to the facts I think becomes an important part of the CCO's role and actually the whole of the sea levels role really because that's where the trust comes in because it's so easy we see so much out there at the moment that perhaps isn't so validated and JNI can amplify that if we're not careful.
So being able to provide those validations and proof points, I think is key in that.
Max Forsyth (20:23)
Yes, no, certainly, yeah, the influence of AI and Gen. AI. I mean, some of the stuff that goes around now is, I mean, frankly, it's just bordering on ludicrous, right? But hey, it still gains some traction on social media, right? And someone has to stand up and defend it. yeah, ⁓ it's a part of the job. It might sound absolutely ridiculous, of it, but it's got to be done.
Tabita Andersson (20:47)
absolutely. Absolutely. I think also it provides a differentiating point if you do it right. As a CCO, it becomes a bit of a differentiator against all the click baits and the cessational stories that are out there. So you actually can take a bit more of a leadership and thought leadership position on it and say, hey, this is the truth. This is the validation. Here are the proof points. Here are the facts. Yes. So I think that's a great thing for reputation.
Max Forsyth (21:14)
If you're enjoying the conversation, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe to Strategy, Story and Stakeholders on Apple, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps others discover the show. Super. Now probably bit of the golden ticket question here. How have you seen communications leaders use data to influence decisions and prove value?
Tabita Andersson (21:41)
It's interesting. I think we are and ⁓ it came through as a key point through quite a few of my conversations. We have matured, I think as a profession immensely in our use of data to prove and validate what we do. I still think and personally, I believe we're a long way away from being at that forefront of actually using it most effectively.
⁓ But I've seen us grow up so much. I when I start, I still remember our back in the Barcelona principles back in the days they were first launched. And that was a massive step forward. And I think what they have done as an organization to help us grow up in terms of a use of our data is really good. I have seen and I talked to lot of comms leaders, some are very literate in data.
Most are not. I think as comms people we're really good at words but we're not necessarily so good with numbers and data. I do think we have an opportunity to kind of grow up in that. And also I do think there's so much technology out there. We should, as a comms profession, we should be looking at what technologies can help us, what tools can help us actually improve in this area.
And I think we're in a much better position now than what we were 10, 15 years ago. But I also think there's an element of intuition and gut feel in comps. can't necessarily, seeing around the corner, enjoying in the dots isn't necessarily something you can measure with data. Building relationships and trust is also difficult to measure with data. So I think there's an element of it that's always going to be human-based and people-based.
that is going to be difficult to measure. That's measured in the trust your CEO has in, you how often does he come and ask for your opinion perhaps and in a wholly different way. But, and also, I also think sometimes you can have a whole slew of data and the best data there is. But actually what you're measured on is, you know, how good is your voice around the table and how trusted are you in the organization? How well do you know our organization? So I think we have to balance that with
with the data. But I do see now there's still a big, I think, disparity and a big, there's lots of gaps and opportunities as a profession. What I see personally is that perhaps in-house professionals are a little bit better at the data than perhaps the external advisors are. So I think agencies and external advisors have a bit of catching up to do.
But I do think we have taken massive strides forward and we are absolutely getting to a point where, yes, there's going to be a possibility of having one dashboard and access to data points to actually prove and validate the value. But there's always the human element.
Max Forsyth (24:39)
And that will always be there. Hey, I think that goes for every single business function actually that, you know, I think the last 18 months, a lot of them have got rather carried away with AI and automation and just wanting to do everything with tech and sort of replace those human interactions and that relationship building. you know, actually, if anything, there's a yearning now across all functions for more of that.
human one-on-one interaction and that real softer, as you say, softer reputational building stuff that you can't really measure. and hey, actually, I think switched on CEOs understand that as well. It is not like suddenly having one dashboard to be able to present to the board or the CEO is suddenly going to be the transformation for the communications function.
I don't believe that, but it may enhance it a little bit.
Tabita Andersson (25:42)
absolutely. And I also think we've become a lot better at looking at the outcomes of what we do and not just the outputs. So because that's at the end of the day, what we're trying to do with proactive strategic communications, shift perspective, shift perception and shift perspectives. And that's just something that's difficult to measure all together. How did our piece of, you know, whatever content it might be, how did it land? Did we actually
shift some perceptions. Are people feeling something different, saying something different, doing something different as a result of what we did? And that is traditionally difficult because you're talking about humans and emotions at the end of the day. But it is getting easier and I think we're getting better at it. I think there's still a bit of a way to go.
Max Forsyth (26:33)
Great. From your interviews with leading CTOs, what separates calm leadership from reactive leadership during a crisis?
Tabita Andersson (26:41)
In a crisis specifically, think the ones that do it really well are the ones that have the trusted relationship with executives and they're also prepared for it. So they've prepared with their teams, they've prepared with the executives beforehand and you have your playbook.
But then the crisis could be anything outside the playbook. So you also have to be prepared to flex and go with whatever's presented before you. So I think the best crisis comms are the ones that are prepared, that have the trusted relationships with the right people and the right stakeholders inside and outside the organization. So you can pull the right team together really quickly. And there are a few examples actually in my book and anecdotes from CCOs that had to deal with some quite unusual and interesting crisis situations. And they talk a little bit about exactly how they manage that situation. ⁓ And yes, the playbook is part of it, but part of it is also being flexible and thinking on your feet ⁓ and just kind of figuring out as you go along. ⁓ Sometimes the executives haven't been through the crisis and you haven't been through the crisis. So you have to work together, right, to
to figure out what the best path forward. And then I think something that quite a few also commented on that actually the best crisis comes is when a crisis is averted. Yes. And that is something that we do as no one typically sees that. And I can eat up a lot of time figuring out how to do that and kind of work on that in the background. But that was quite an interesting comment, I think, that I heard from several of the CCOs.
Max Forsyth (28:31)
Yes, and is there a crisis or a reputational challenge from your own career that taught you something lasting?
Tabita Andersson (28:38)
That's a good question. I think I've been through several crises. think the lockdown and COVID and going through that from an internal comms perspective is obviously the biggest crisis that we have ever seen in our generation. And that was something that no one had a playbook for. No one could prepare for it. We'd never been through it. We didn't know what to do. So P'Gaym really
important and I think really early on it became really evident that the comms team, we all macked in. So from my own perspective and experience of that time, all of a sudden my external communicators were doing internal comms work because actually we needed to beef up the team and we needed to make sure that we had people that could work different out wants to split responsibilities. So it was literally an all hands on deck. What do we do? And then working on that together with the CEO.
We had a really close relationship with our CEO and our executives at the time. And we worked with them on an almost daily basis of, okay, what do we do now? How do we do this together? And I think that was just a really interesting crisis to work through because we had to flex on our feet. And at the time we had obviously, I was working in a large publicly listed company. So we had...
Councils and people that were all of a sudden looking to us of what do we do now? What should we think? What should we say? So that was a crisis situation that I think taught me and ⁓ our team of working just on our feet, of figuring out day by day almost. It's okay, what's the plan today? What are going to do now? What would be best for our colleagues? How can we put their health and safety and wellbeing first?
while still delivering what we need for our customers and balancing all those different priorities. So I think that was just such an immense learning experience for anyone that worked in comms at the time.
Max Forsyth (30:43)
Yes, I think anyone will look back at that and just go, one, that was insane. Two, would have learned a lot, a lot. Suddenly becoming arguably the most important function within a business overnight for a few weeks was also probably quite fun.
Tabita Andersson (30:58)
Oh
absolutely, absolutely. It was. And we discovered, I think we discovered a lot about ourselves of how resilient we are and how many creative ideas all of a sudden we have on what we can do with communications that we've never done before. So it was a lot of fun from that perspective.
Max Forsyth (31:16)
⁓ What skills or mindsets do you think are going to define the next few years for CCOs but also the next generation of CCOs?
Tabita Andersson (31:24)
I think I come back to the three key skills that I mentioned earlier as well. Critical thinking, courage and curiosity are just such important attributes. ⁓ Critical thinking, we've mentioned fake news, misinformation, being able to bring that perspective to conversations, I think is just going to increase in value as we go because the volume of noise
that we're facing now is increasing because the channels are increasing, the immense number and volume of content is increasing. So being able to cut through and provide a critical thinking voice, that is a skill that think everyone needs to learn and really improve on more than anything.
And then we mentioned ⁓ courage and curiosity, so courage to kind of speak up or to remain calm. Because sometimes courage is also being that calm voice. think that's something that is also going to increase in value. And then lastly, curiosity as well of being a ⁓ learner, I think is super important. Most of the CCOs that spoke to spent quite a bit of time
reading newsletters, listening to podcasts, and just learning about where the profession is going, what can we do better, and what's happening in the world. Super important, think, especially if you're looking after external communications, to really be on top of what's the news story today, and being able to help your organization navigate through that.
Max Forsyth (33:10)
No, get it, get it. No, hang on, I completely agree. think there's three really key but fantastic examples and really nicely explained as well, Tabita. I think everybody listening will be able to understand what those mean and what they need to do, so thank you. Quickly, how are data analytics and AI changing the function?
Tabita Andersson (33:34)
it will make the function better. think we have an opportunity with data analytics, there's an opportunity providing value, but there's also an opportunity of actually informing what we do. Looking at the data of, say, customer data, for example, can really inform how we go forward with customer communications and external communications. So there's that.
part of actually using it to analyse what we do and to do things better, I think. AI obviously was a topic of conversation with all of the CCOs that I interviewed and everyone's on a different journey. I think one of the things that came out of AI about AI is let's get some use cases together, let's share best practices. There's a real appetite for looking at what can we do beyond just making ourselves more streamlined, more efficient.
But actually, how can we use it to help us shape perception better or shape reputation better? So I think at the moment, and what I hear and what I heard through my conversations is that a lot of comms leaders are using it to make themselves more efficient. Having internal knowledge bases, for example, being able to remember what you said to your internal comms when you craft in external comms six months later, that's super helpful for a comms team.
And that's kind of where I've seen most of them dabbling with AI. But I think we also have a real good opportunity of using it for shaping external perception and reputation going forward and using data analytics to inform what we do. And I think that's probably something that we're not necessarily so good at. And that's fun enough, that's what I see the marketing function actually is very good at. So I think comms can probably learn a bit from marketing.
⁓ in how to use AI to do their job better from an external perspective.
Max Forsyth (35:29)
No, fantastic and yeah, I completely agree and those are all really great points. Final question. What's the one piece of advice you'd give to a communications professional who wants to reach this e-suite?
Tabita Andersson (35:45)
build trusted relationship with your executives, prove the value and manage your stakeholders. That is just the one golden thread that goes down throughout the book. Having a trust with your CEO, with all the C levels around the table, that just gives you that equity, that credibility inside the organization. And the more you do that, the more you'll be brought into the right conversations.
Max Forsyth (36:15)
fantastic. What a great snippet as well to clip up. So thank you. And thank you for all your insights. think, yeah, you know, that was that was genuinely fascinating. Really interesting. Some super points. Lots to take away. Hopefully those people will feel inspired to buy the book as well off the back of this. So on that note, yeah, where can people find your book, follow your work, et cetera?
Tabita Andersson (36:41)
Absolutely. So the book is available on Amazon and it's also available from the publisher's own website at A Press ⁓ and people can follow me on LinkedIn. ⁓ I will continue to post little snippets from the book and some insights over the next few months.
Max Forsyth (36:58)
fabulous super and I will get a link to the book put in the ⁓ show notes for everyone. So yeah, by the time you are listening to this, check out the show notes and there will be a link to buy the book as well. So Tabita Andersson, thank you very much for coming on Strategy, Story and Stakeholders.
Tabita Andersson (37:15)
Thank you very much, Max. It's been a fantastic conversation.
Max Forsyth (37:19)
Cheers, thank you.
Tabita Andersson, Vice President of Marketing at Rimini Street, former SVP of Communications at Clarivate Analytics, and author of the new book, Chief Communications Officers at Work.
If you enjoyed the discussion, please rate, review and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. I'm Max Forsyth. Thanks for listening and I'll see you soon for more conversations about storytelling, trust and leadership.
